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 Logic vs. Creativity

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Toniy

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PostSubject: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 11:32 am

Ok Ladies and Gents,

Sometimes I'll be on my own, waiting for a bus or something (as is the case here, or was... anyway) and I'll start pondering certain things.

Some people do this on the bus, others on the toilet, some not at all.

My ponderance in this case is based on a question that is supposed to test your logical abilities. Here it is:

You are presented with two doors.
The doors are identical in every way.
Each door has a guardian.
The guardians are also identical in every way (twins probably).
One door leads to Heaven.
The other door leads to Hell (in this case, both exist... no arguments).
The Heaven Guardian always tells the truth.
The Hell Guardian always tells lies (naturally).
You can ask only one question.

Now, the question (for you) is this...

What question do you have to ask the guardian (either / both) that will tell you which door is which?

Now when this was first presented to me, I was told there was only ONE answer to this.

I didn't get it.

For those of you who have heard this before... well I guess just don't post the answer because it will mess up the whole study.

And it is a study Very Happy

Basically I came up with a totally different answer, that was totally valid under the confines of this question. It just wasn't logical.

So I was ponderancing how the rest of you will fair / fare / fehh...

I'll put the real answer (and my answer) up later on, after we get a few suggestions.

Bet there's nothing like THIS on the Bristol board. Or Newcastle...

All the best you sexy 6% cheers
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dani

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 12:20 pm

i would have loved to have had a go at this but i just watched the film labyrinth the other day and i think the answer's in it.

i'll remained tight-lipped though Cool

be interesting to see what answers come up
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Nick

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 12:29 pm

dani wrote:
i would have loved to have had a go at this but i just watched the film labyrinth the other day and i think the answer's in it.

i'll remained tight-lipped though Cool

be interesting to see what answers come up

you genius Very Happy

couldnt remember what film it was, therefore i also know the answer and will keep quiet afro

Iv just taken a look around my room and considered the endless amount of shit im gna b brining to Sibly....argh how do we accumulate so much crap.
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David Finn

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 5:27 pm

dani wrote:
i would have loved to have had a go at this but i just watched the film labyrinth the other day and i think the answer's in it.

i'll remained tight-lipped though Cool

be interesting to see what answers come up

I too have seen labyrinth and am not allowed to play, i love bowie in that film, although he is 10x stranger than the rest of the film added together.

Hope someone who hasn't seen Labyrinth has a go Razz
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Jellis

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 7:11 pm

hmmmmm, i wouldn't ask a question just try the doors! what are guardians gonna do!?!?
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 9:44 pm

They'll stab you. And then you go to Hell by default.

And then you'll spend eternity kicking yourself, now knowing which door's which and not being able to do anything about it because you tried to cheat the system.

Admire your courage though penguin. Very Happy Hey, have you met emu?

You know what? I haven't actually seen labyrinth, but I do know a hell of a lot of people have... so this question's a little redundant now right?

I'll give it another day. But I can feel that overwhelming disappointment coming along. Sorry guys.
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dani

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 11, 2007 9:54 pm

Toniy wrote:
You know what? I haven't actually seen labyrinth, but I do know a hell of a lot of people have... so this question's a little redundant now right?

I'll give it another day. But I can feel that overwhelming disappointment coming along. Sorry guys.

aww bless. i've got it on dvd - i'll lend it to ya in july Wink

i hope someone who hasn't seen the film has a stab at it. i'm interested to see what your answer is though...
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Jellis

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Sat May 12, 2007 5:51 am

ahhhh I know the answer now! but only after I asked Whittaker as he was braggin that he knew it. It's so obvious, I am actually a retard for not gettin it! not gonna spoil it for the others though.
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Sun May 13, 2007 7:06 pm

Right, so basically I see where I went wrong on this now.

First of all, everyone except me seems to have seen labyrinth.

Second of all, nobody is going to post the wrong answer are they?

So, for those of you who... actually I don't know who I'm posting the answer for, but here goes:

'If I were to ask the other guy what door he was guarding, what would he say?'

Their answer will be the door they are guarding. Ask the guy heaven guy what the hell guy would say, he's say 'heaven' because the hell guy lies.

Now its pretty clever, and may seem obvious to some, but not many people get it without being told. Very very few apparently.

But I thought about it and came to a totally different answer.

I personally would have gone up to either one with four fingers held up and asked 'how many fingers am I holding up?'
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Josh



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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Mon May 14, 2007 4:14 am

The question is supposed to be asked so you don't know which guardian is guarding which door (the liar doesn't necessarily guard hell)..in which case there is only one answer.
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Lauren

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Mon May 14, 2007 5:41 am

im confused!!!!

does the answer solve the question ???

coz if you ask heaven then he would say he would say hell
an
if you ask hell he would also say hell

so how do you know which one is heaven?????

but if heaven knows hell lies an you ask him the question wouldnt he answer heaven and hell answer hell?????
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Josh



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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Mon May 14, 2007 6:35 am

So of either guard you ask the question 'If i was to ask the other guard what door he was guarding, what would he say?'..whatever door the guard you ask responds with is the door he himself is guarding.
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Mon May 14, 2007 6:38 am

Josh wrote:
The question is supposed to be asked so you don't know which guardian is guarding which door (the liar doesn't necessarily guard hell)..in which case there is only one answer.


Did someone just watch Labyrinth again? Very Happy

Ok.... Well, I fucked up. Sorry for wasting everybody's time Sad

In my defence I was told wrong, or I remembered it wrong.

But we've all had some fun haven't we? In fact, can't we just change the question for this coming year? My ego has taken a hell of a shot.

Thanks for pointing that out though Josh buddy, as I said... haven't seen the film Smile I was always a little dubious that it was me that found a work around. I'm crap with puzzles like that. Probably because I don't listen cheers


Quote :
im confused!!!!

does the answer solve the question ???

coz if you ask heaven then he would say he would say hell
an
if you ask hell he would also say hell

so how do you know which one is heaven?????

but if heaven knows hell lies an you ask him the question wouldnt he answer heaven and hell answer hell?????

Wow... ok Very Happy

Ask the Heaven Guy:


"What will the other guy say?"

Heaven Guy says:

Heaven

BECAUSE:

If you asked the Hell Guy directly, what door he was guarding, he'd say 'Heaven', because he's guarding Hell and always lies. The Heaven guy knows this.

REVERSE:

Ask the Hell guy what door the other guy's guarding, he'd say 'Hell', because the Heaven guy will say Heaven, but the Hell guy turns it into a lie.

Is that all cool?

In fairness it confused the hell out of me first time as well. So you're in good (great) company.

HOLD ON A MINUTE

Isn't one of the commandments 'Don't lie?'

Thou shall not bear false witness or something?

So, surely Heaven wouldn't have a liar guarding their door, would they? It would be a little hypocritical.

... obviously reading too much into this now... scratch
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Nick

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Mon May 14, 2007 7:22 am

i demand more revision avoidance tactics.

preferably something that doesnt involve me watching every available episode of House...or Fawlty Towers, makes me feel guilty. \o/
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Tue May 15, 2007 9:13 pm

HEY THERE GUY!!!

Revision avoidance... I know what you mean. I appreciate you seeing this stuff as revision avoidance though. Means a lot bud. Very Happy

On the subject of revision avoidance, I avoided revision with an exam I did today (yesterday by now actually). Business Finance. Open Book. It didn't end well.

Night before the exam I was just summarising some notes to take in, when my housemate pops her head round my door and asks 'whatcha doin?' I reply 'writing up some notes' she says 'why don't you just print the lecture slides off? That's what I did... they're in the folder ready to take in tomorrow'. I said 'Good idea'... got rid of the notes and ordered a pizza.

Next day (this morning... no, yesterday morning) I get up, get dressed, see my housemate about a taxi in, she says great, but there's traffic. So I order the taxi for ASAP, it arrives at 8:10 (exam at 9). I start freaking out as soon as we hit traffic. Or as freaking out as I get at least.

Basically I said 'Right, that's it... I'm freaking out...' So anyways, we get into the uni at about 8:20 and I figure it'll only take about ten minutes to print off the slides. In handout form. Black and white.

It didn't.

For some reason, the printers were dribbling out pages one every... minute or so? I had SIXTY pages.

So the techy came in and I said 'what's the deal with the printers? He said '...What?' I said 'They're coming out too slow. I've got twenty minutes to print sixty pages'. He said 'oh... that's not gonna happen'.

Long(er) story short, we talked for a bit, he explained about how each slide has to be taken off the internet and transfered to print, and also how each slide is a 'bitmap' which is huge and takes a while to load. I felt that this was time he could have spent hurrying up my prints.

At the end of it, he cancelled the job, and I ended up with last year's past paper (no help) and the final revision lecture (which told us WHAT to revise...).

So I spent the next two hours thinking... I'm an idiot.

I actually saw a notice in the library saying that I have a tendency to be what's called a 'procrastinator'. Doing tomorrow what could be done today. I have learnt that lesson the hard way.

Ok, so that's revision avoidance out the way. cheers

Hope you enjoyed that little inkling there buddy, and I hope you maybe learned something too. study
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Jellis

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 4:32 am

In the words of Rio Ferdinand, you got merked tongue

But at least it was open book I guess so you had something with you!

I learnt my lesson from exams last year, never leave your phone in your pocket switched of....... they manage to turn themselves on in the middle of the exam, and that mousey quiet start up tone of the phone is suddenly really fecking loud!

I then also went one step futher with this by stupidly deciding to turn the phone of, which lets out another loud tone.....

... Didn't get caught but I'm not sure how as I know I turned as red as a tomato and everyone around me just stared at me. Suppose theres one good reason of having grumpy old people as invigilators, their pretty deaf and blind!
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Lauren

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 5:47 am

heres a question you can think about to help avoid revision!!!!

If super glue is so sticky why doesnt it stick to the inside of the tube?
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David Finn

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 5:59 am

The glue is liquid and there is no air in the tube for the moisture to evaporate into so it stays liquid, only when it starts to dry can it cement two objects together.

That is my attempt at a logical answer, anyone got a creative one?
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Whittaker

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 11:34 am

Toniy are all your exams open book? You have it easy if they are! lol

Finn your super glue answer sounds pretty scientific and therefore must be right, so I am not even going to attempt my own. But I found a few (10 lol) ‘brain teasers’ on the net (revision avoidance…) for you all to have a go at.

1. A man says, "Brothers and sisters, have I none, but that man's father is my father's son." Who is he pointing at?
2. Imagine you are in a sinking rowboat surrounded by sharks. How would you survive?
3. Why is it against the law for a man living in North Carolina to be buried in South Carolina?
4. A man and his son were in an automobile accident. The man died on the way to the hospital, but the boy was rushed into surgery. The emergency room surgeon said "I can't operate, that's my son!" How is this possible?
5. What letter is next in this sequence?
M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O,__
6. A man rides into town on Friday, stays for four days and then leaves on Friday, how is that possible?
7. What happened in 1961 and will not happen again until 6009?
8. Johnny's mother had four children. The first was April, the second was May, and the third was June. What was the name of her fourth child?
9. There was an airplane crash, every single person died, but two people survived. How is this possible?
10. There is one word in the English language that is always pronounced incorrectly. What is it?
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Whittaker

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 11:36 am

Toniy are all your exams open book? You have it easy if they are! lol

Finn your super glue answer sounds pretty scientific and therefore must be right, so I am not even going to attempt my own. But I found a few (10 lol) ‘brain teasers’ on the net (revision avoidance…) for you all to have a go at.

1. A man says, "Brothers and sisters, have I none, but that man's father is my father's son." Who is he pointing at?
2. Imagine you are in a sinking rowboat surrounded by sharks. How would you survive?
3. Why is it against the law for a man living in North Carolina to be buried in South Carolina?
4. A man and his son were in an automobile accident. The man died on the way to the hospital, but the boy was rushed into surgery. The emergency room surgeon said "I can't operate, that's my son!" How is this possible?
5. What letter is next in this sequence?
M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O,__
6. A man rides into town on Friday, stays for four days and then leaves on Friday, how is that possible?
7. What happened in 1961 and will not happen again until 6009?
8. Johnny's mother had four children. The first was April, the second was May, and the third was June. What was the name of her fourth child?
9. There was an airplane crash, every single person died, but two people survived. How is this possible?
10. There is one word in the English language that is always pronounced incorrectly. What is it?
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David Finn

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 12:13 pm

I think i managed 8 of out 10 on those, I PM'd my answers to u Whittaker Smile

So much revision i should be doing.
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Josh



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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Wed May 16, 2007 5:53 pm

Here be spoilers


1 - his own son
2 - Throw the coxswain to the sharks. Maybe the sharks are inflatable and i can grab one to float away to safety on.
I guess because I'm supposed to be imagining this then I can imagine up any solution.
How about I have metal skin that sharks can't bite. I could even just stop imagining all together and I'd be safe and sound.
3 - Because he's still living
4 - The surgeon was his mam
5 - N(ovember)
6 - Friday is his horse
7 - A year that reads the same upside down as it does right side up
8 - Johnny
9 - They were married...or conjoined twins
10 - 'Incorrectly'
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 2:48 am

Jellis wrote:
In the words of Rio Ferdinand, you got merked tongue

But at least it was open book I guess so you had something with you!

I learnt my lesson from exams last year, never leave your phone in your pocket switched of....... they manage to turn themselves on in the middle of the exam, and that mousey quiet start up tone of the phone is suddenly really fecking loud!

I then also went one step futher with this by stupidly deciding to turn the phone of, which lets out another loud tone.....

... Didn't get caught but I'm not sure how as I know I turned as red as a tomato and everyone around me just stared at me. Suppose theres one good reason of having grumpy old people as invigilators, their pretty deaf and blind!

Wow... that's embarassing. I had that happen in a lecture once but I just madea big song and dance about it, apologising profusely to the lecturer, explaining that I'm as surprised as she is... I didn't think I ever got signal in this room. I should have just turned it off.

Yeah in fairness having 'something' in an open book exam would be ok... but in this case all it served to do was create the illusion that I was prepared.

An illusion I possibly could have done without since maybe, MAYBE someone would have seen and inquired as to the reason I had no notes for the hard open book exam.

I would then be able to explain the situation to them and they would have offered me their notes. But no, because I looked like I had notes.

To reitterate (?) forget that. To say again, I had an old exam paper which repeated NONE of the questions (which was rubbish because the first open book exam repeated ALL of them) and the final lecture slides, which was just a list of things I should have known. I mean like: Share Valuation, Mergers and Acquisitions, Pre exam preparation etc. No explanations.

I actually have an exam in... an hour and twenty minutes (half an hour walk into uni too) so once again, revision avoidance.

You people are just too damn charming. I can't keep away.

My answers to the various teasers to follow... once I've finished the exam.

Jesus christ, if I spent the whole two hours thinking 'hmm... I wonder how I really WOULD survive shark infested waters...' then I'm never coming back to this board again.

I have the attention span of a gnat though.
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fletch757

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 6:04 am

Hey Whittaker,
good wrk on the 10 questions, i worked out some but it was too tempting to scrowl dwn n c joshs answers! But is the 1st answer not his grandson? That boys father is my son, so he is pointing at his sons son?
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 11:52 am

Quote :
Toniy are all your exams open book? You have it easy if they are! lol

Just that one... and one other I was allowed to take in one page of notes. One side of a page. Should I be worried that I can fit an entire semester's worth of learnage onto one sheet? ... hmm

Quote :
1. A man says, "Brothers and sisters, have I none, but that man's father is my father's son." Who is he pointing at?
2. Imagine you are in a sinking rowboat surrounded by sharks. How would you survive?
3. Why is it against the law for a man living in North Carolina to be buried in South Carolina?
4. A man and his son were in an automobile accident. The man died on the way to the hospital, but the boy was rushed into surgery. The emergency room surgeon said "I can't operate, that's my son!" How is this possible?
5. What letter is next in this sequence?
M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O,__
6. A man rides into town on Friday, stays for four days and then leaves on Friday, how is that possible?
7. What happened in 1961 and will not happen again until 6009?
8. Johnny's mother had four children. The first was April, the second was May, and the third was June. What was the name of her fourth child?
9. There was an airplane crash, every single person died, but two people survived. How is this possible?
10. There is one word in the English language that is always pronounced incorrectly. What is it?

OK!!! My answers...

1. Connor Reeves. He did that song...
2. First of all, since its sinking and not actually SUNK, I could probably still get some way. And, failing that, it's a row boat. As such it should have ores, so smack the shit out of them. Humanely.
3. Because its still murder.
4. Because the boy's mother was a big whore.
5. N, because it spells Jason. I'm not a big fan of the Jason I knew, but facts are facts.
6. Time machine.
7. Gary Cooper died. I doubt it will happen again in 6009, but we'll all be dead by then so who's to argue?
8. It is Johnny in fairness. Or JOHNATHAN.
9. Zombie's actually exist?
10. Advertisement. People love saying it wrong. Or American, which isn't to say its wrong. Just in England. Where its pronounced Advertisement.
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 11:54 am

Exam went well by the way guys.

Except my pen ran out half way through. Literally.

I had to etch the answers into the paper.

And I know many of you will think 'Why didn't you ask for a pen?' because that's all I've heard all day. My answer is simple.

I didn't want to feel like a twelve year old.
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Jellis

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 12:33 pm

But now they might think that you write like one! Razz
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David Finn

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 1:13 pm

I bet whoever ends up marking that is gonna love you Toniy, but you must have done well on the exam for it to have still gone well even though you were just scratching letters into wood.

I had an exam this morning that didnt go well, the questions were horrible and i spent the whole time staring angrily at the lecturer who wrote it while he sat at the front.
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Whittaker

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Thu May 17, 2007 2:27 pm

I think everyone that wants to has had a go by now so the answers are as follows,

1. Himself, (that mans father is my fathers son)
2. Stop imagining
3. The man is still living
4. His mother
5. N for November or Jason spelt MAMJJASON? Very Happy
6. The horse is called Friday
7. The year reads the same upside down
8. Johnny (Took me a while to get that one)
9. They were married (Or in a civil partnership......)
10. Incorrectly

For the people taht sent me a msg sorry didnt reply but got two exams next week and havn't started revising yet, thought this was quicker, Cheers!
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Toniy

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PostSubject: Re: Logic vs. Creativity   Fri May 18, 2007 6:47 am

OK!!! That was good stuff, I enjoyed it.

Finn, I feel for ya guy. My lecturers didn't show up for the exam they 'composed' so I didn't get to stare...

Whittaker, I have to say those are some interesting little teasers.

Though I may have been wrong in several attempts (Although the mother one and the carolina one were nearly spot on... did ya see that?)
that just goes to show the difference between logic and creativity, which is if course, the entire point of this little nook we have here.

Cheers Guys cheers

p.s. The guy I knew spelt his name with a silent MAMJ
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